Gluing Walls to Floor

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Gluing Walls to Floor

Postby Tom&Shelly » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:59 pm

This subject has been covered here before, but I'm interested in what type of glue (carpenter's glue, polyurethane, epoxy, etc.) folks have used to glue their walls to their floor, and how well it worked. (Hopefully no catastrophic failures! :shock: )

I'm building using Steve Fredrick's methods and manual. In one part he says polyurethane glues work best on tight joints, and he uses construction adhesive (the same thing?) to glue his walls to floor. But how likely is it to have a uniformly tight joint across a 10 foot teardrop? It seems to me waterproof carpenter's glue might be a better choice. (In my case, I'd continue using Titebond 3, which actually wasn't on the market when Steve wrote his manual.)

Epoxy would probably take care of less then perfect joints, but it wouldn't be flexible at all, and I have a (probably unreasonable) concern it might fail in a teardrop constantly bouncing down the (unpaved) roads, flexing, etc.

So, any thoughts? What have you used and how well has it worked?

Thank you!

Tom
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Re: Gluing Walls to Floor

Postby tony.latham » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:18 pm

I use PL Premium poly. And then I screw the heck out of it.

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I just don't think it's a tight enough joint for Tightbond.

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Re: Gluing Walls to Floor

Postby swoody126 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:26 am

both TB lll & PL Premium benefit from dampening the wood when making waterproof joints

TB lll shrinks during it's curing process it doesn't fill any imperfections in the process and it REQUIRES tight pressure in good fitting joints during the curing stage

PL Premium expands a bit during the curing process filling slight imperfections and as stated above REQUIRES tight pressure(clamped/screwed like the dickins)while curing to prevent the glue from moving the parts during the process

my comments are based on a duplicate boat build last year when i created 2 identical small boats(from big box store products instead of "marine" products) where one was built w/ TB lll and the other using PL Premium 3x

attention was paid to dampening all joints and the use of enough glue to produce OOZE all along both sides of every joint

both boats floated nicely w/ NO LEAKS

the TB lll boat did require some attention with calking in places where the glue shrunk(even after oozing) leaving slight voids whereas the PL Premium boat's joints all had to be trimmed prior to finishing

my conclusion was that THICKENED EPOXY(i've been involved in several boat builds over the last few years where all products were "marine grade") is by far the best bonding agent where/when WATERPROOF and LONGEVITY are paramount

the epoxy process requires unthickened epoxy to be applied to both surfaces just prior to applying the thickened product to prevent joint starvation as the bond cures

a couple of reasons include... you can get epoxy w/ different drying time hardeners(i like the tropical slow stuff because it provides this old man enough time to work a seam/joint single handed) AND thickened epoxy will fill imperfections AND when coated w/ a UV inhibiting product(paint or varnish) IT IS WATERPROOF forever

the above coment about epoxy failing under ADV trailer conditions is a non issue IMHO

more likely the wood would be pulled apart before the epoxy would fail

DUCKWORKS BBS is a great source for quality epoxy products at economical prices

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/category-s/254.htm

GOOD LUCK W/ YOUR BUILD

sw
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Re: Gluing Walls to Floor

Postby DWT77 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:00 am

I ended up using the Milled Fiber and pocket hole screws for mounting my sidewall to the floor

http://www.raka.com/fillers.html
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Re: Gluing Walls to Floor

Postby aggie79 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:20 pm

I used PL Premium.
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Re: Gluing Walls to Floor

Postby working on it » Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:20 pm

Another vote here for PL Premium...I must've used 10-12, maybe 15 tubes of it on my TTT during construction, modifications, and seam-sealing any possible opening. I had originally bought a gallon of TB2 for use as my all-purpose wood-to-wood adhesive, and did glue the two-part flooring together with it (1/4" Luan glued/screwed on top of 1/2" Birch plywood). But, when I started using the PL to seal between the front and rear bulkheads and the floor (deck), I found I preferred using it to the TB2; I'd lay down a thick bead , and I knew it was just right, when excess would appear on bath sides of the vertical walls (I'd wipe up the excess and force it into any gaps). Better too much, than too little! During previous experimenting using TB2, I wasn't sure if I had used enough. As for sealing holes, and filling seams with it, it's my favorite thing to use (I have used it on a car body, in lieu of 3M Seam Sealer). Love the stuff!
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Re: Gluing Walls to Floor

Postby Tom&Shelly » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:49 pm

Thank you all for relating your experience. PL Premium sounds like a good choice.

I'm wondering if it is different from polyurethane construction adhesive, such as PL 2000? Steve Fredrick recommended against using that if the joints are loose, saying it foams up and "there is no strength in this application." Guess I should read the Loctite web site and see what the differences are.

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Re: Gluing Walls to Floor

Postby working on it » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:42 am

Tom&Shelly wrote:Thank you all for relating your experience. PL Premium sounds like a good choice.

I'm wondering if it is different from polyurethane construction adhesive, such as PL 2000? Steve Fredrick recommended against using that if the joints are loose, saying it foams up and "there is no strength in this application." Guess I should read the Loctite web site and see what the differences are.

Tom
  • I've seen no evidence of any changes of the PL over 7 years now, since the walls went up, and 90% of the PL was in place. Of course, all of it has been poly'd over with multiple coats of "the mix", straight polyurethane, then several coats of tractor/silo/acrylic paints. And, there were no loose joints anywhere. But, on the roof, where I used a huge amount of PL to form water deflector/directors (to eliminate water from pooling near multiple screw/bolt holes, and along the transition between front slope and the roof), if there was to be any foaming or deterioration of the PL, it would've manifested itself there first, but there has been none.
  • Also, though the walls have had plenty of time and reason (many bad roads, high speed travel, and major potholes crossed) to twist or flex apart, the PL in the seams shows no sign of pulling apart, either. I love this stuff, and no longer use Liquid Nails on any project, but use PL for everything (except for using OSI Quad for windows and more flexible seams).
2013 HHRv "squareback/squaredrop", semi-offroad, 4x8 TTT, 2150 lbs
  • *3500 lb Dexter EZ-Lube braked axle, 3000 lb.springs, & active-progressive bumpstop suspension
  • *27 x 8.5-14LT AT tires (x 3) *Weight Distribution system modified for single-beam tongue
  • *100% LED's, GFCI outlets, 3x fans, AM/FM/C *A/C & heat, Optima AGM, inverter & charger(s)
  • *extended-run, on-board, 2500w generator *Coleman dual-fuel stove & lantern, Ikea grill, vintage skillet
  • *zinc/stainless front & side racks *98"L x 6" rooftop rod & reel carrier tube
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Re: Gluing Walls to Floor

Postby Tomterrific » Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:52 am

I love PL 3x and 8x. You want the largest glued area. I used a 1x3 glued on the side of the floor and the wall was positioned inside the 1x3 and on top of the floor. The wall was glued to both. I wish I knew just how good the PL is because I would have used it more carefully as waterproofing the plywood edge. If your floor is 3/4, smear the PL carefully over the edge to completely seal before placing the edge board.

Interesting, I must have been sloppy and did not release the pressure on the gun with the PL 8x . A blob setup on the tire. I had a camping trip coming up and figured the blob would get knocked off on the road. 200 miles later I noticed the blob was worn flat but still on the tire. That is some tough stuff.

Tt
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Re: Gluing Walls to Floor

Postby noseoil » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:53 am

I think too much thought is going into the glue, when it's the joint which makes the connection in a wall to floor bond. I used a rabbet joint in the floor, screwed from both directions (bottom & sides), then used plain old titebond for the walls. A rabbet joint will allow for good bonding along the bottom edge of the wall, align the wall properly at the inside & give good strength once the glue sets. A tight fit is important, since the glue is only as good as the edge it's applied to when it sets...

I used elevator bolts to hold the bottom sandwich-panel to the frame. Works like a champ, but had to grind the heads on a couple to get them in place, so it was easier to install the box once it was assembled. I used the existing holes in the frame, so placement might have been better, but they still work very well & it's rolling along after nearly 20,000 miles without any problems or loose bolts.

Here's a mock-up of the rabbet joint & galley bulkhead prior to assembly, just to see how things will fit together
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Re: Gluing Walls to Floor

Postby twisted lines » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:33 am

You probably have chosen , and have what you plan to use but here is what I have chosen, have not received, or used it yet but it was highly recamended but it reads as it might make you high as well.

Sikaflex-252 Polyurethane Elastic Adhesive
5.5 X 10 Flatback Benroy in a pile,
And it's growing!
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Re: Gluing Walls to Floor

Postby Tyrtill » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:17 am

Sorry for reviving an old thread but this is the closest existing thread that I found. A youtube channel I follow named project farm just posted a video comparing some adhesives and I figured it would be useful to the community.

This is one is based on "waterproof" glues and he will do a followup on "occasional wet" glues.

The video shows shear and tension forces on wood and tension forces on pvc.




*spoiler alert*

overall the 3M 5200 seems to do the best unless you bust out the epoxy.
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Re: Gluing Walls to Floor

Postby tony.latham » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:24 am

Tyrtill wrote:Sorry for reviving an old thread but this is the closest existing thread that I found. A youtube channel I follow named project farm just posted a video comparing some adhesives and I figured it would be useful to the community.

This is one is based on "waterproof" glues and he will do a followup on "occasional wet" glues.

The video shows shear and tension forces on wood and tension forces on pvc.




*spoiler alert*

overall the 3M 5200 seems to do the best unless you bust out the epoxy.


I’ve never had a joint fail with PL. I’ve used 5200 in the past for small issues but it would be prohibitively expensive to substitute it for PL.

In considering the strength of the wall/floor joint, teardrop builders also need to consider how the bulkhead and roof attach to the floor.

The sum of all those attachment points is where the strength is.

T
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