Running the same wheels as on the truck? Offset

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Running the same wheels as on the truck? Offset

Postby rebar » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:17 am

Ive always thought it would be a advantage to have the trailer setup with the same exact wheels and tire size as on my truck so I would only need one spare. But the wheel offset of the truck is 4 3/4", while the trailer rim is centered at 0 offset.

For those of you who have done this.. Did it require a wider axle so the tire wouldn't rub on the inside?

Thanks!
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Re: Running the same wheels as on the truck? Offset

Postby Ottsville » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:29 am

That depends on your build and how much space there is. The other common issues that arise are the bolt pattern and the center bore of the wheels fitting over the hub. You can get hubs with some different bolt patterns but many wheels have a smaller hole in the center that is not large enough to fit over the hub. Wheel spacers/adapters solve both these problems (and may solve your backspacing problem).
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Re: Running the same wheels as on the truck? Offset

Postby rebar » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:02 am

Ottsville wrote:Many wheels have a smaller hole in the center that is not large enough to fit over the hub. Wheel spacers/adapters solve both these problems (and may solve your backspacing problem).


Thanks Ottsville..

Are you saying the trailer rim center hole would be larger than the 3/4 ton truck rims 4.77" center hole? Or smaller? Is it important that the center hole fits snug on the hub?

Thanks again!
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Re: Running the same wheels as on the truck? Offset

Postby swoody126 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:44 am

many years ago horse & stock trailers were outfitted w/ axle hubs that accepted the wheels from 3/4 & 1-ton pick ups

16" x 6 lug using 7.00x16 & 235/85x16 tires

this made the OP's premise work and work well(try to even buy a 7.00x16 today)

since styles and fuel economy have become major factors in designing pick ups that old standard has gone out the window

OFFSET & WHEEL CENTER HOLE SIZE are major factors when designing a trailer axle and wheel well to accept the TV's wheels

these factors must be considered in the design stage of trailer building

luckily i wasn't far from home when i had to use the Jeep spare on my trailer because that tire rubbing on the frame sure stunk & smoked :shock:

sw
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Re: Running the same wheels as on the truck? Offset

Postby Ottsville » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:25 am

rebar wrote:
Are you saying the trailer rim center hole would be larger than the 3/4 ton truck rims 4.77" center hole? Or smaller? Is it important that the center hole fits snug on the hub?

Thanks again!


Short answer is that the hole in your wheel needs to be larger than the hub on the trailer. Many Jeep wheels are the same bolt pattern as many light trailers (5x4.5) but the the center holes are not large enough to fit over the hub.

Your last question is getting into hub centric vs lug centric questions. I had a really good link on that but I can't seem to find it now. You can get adapters/spacers that work either way, but make sure you are using correct lug nuts if you switch from hub centric to lug centric.
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Re: Running the same wheels as on the truck? Offset

Postby rebar » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:22 am

swoody126 wrote:OFFSET & WHEEL CENTER HOLE SIZE are major factors when designing a trailer axle and wheel well to accept the TV's wheels



Ottsville wrote:
Short answer is that the hole in your wheel needs to be larger than the hub on the trailer. Many Jeep wheels are the same bolt pattern as many light trailers (5x4.5) but the the center holes are not large enough to fit over the hub.

Your last question is getting into hub centric vs lug centric questions. I had a really good link on that but I can't seem to find it now. You can get adapters/spacers that work either way, but make sure you are using correct lug nuts if you switch from hub centric to lug centric.


Im reading about hub centric vs lug centric and I still have the same opinion..

If the wheel was press-fit onto the hub I'd get it. But the wheel has to be a slip fit so that means that with manufacturing tolerances the hole in the wheel will always be bigger than the diameter of the hub, so the tapers on the lug nuts do all the wheel centering and the hub doesn't support anything, unless the lugs bend.

Just my opinion.

I'm wondering how trailer makers will react to my request to widen the axle 9-10" so that they can fit offset truck rims.. They'll probably hang up on me. lol
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Re: Running the same wheels as on the truck? Offset

Postby swoody126 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:31 am

rebar wrote:...

I'm wondering how trailer makers will react to my request to widen the axle 9-10" so that they can fit offset truck rims.. They'll probably hang up on me. lol


rebar, simply remember you are the one w/ the $$$ and there is/are manufacturers out there who are in business to make $$$ ;-)

sw
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Re: Running the same wheels as on the truck? Offset

Postby Ottsville » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:53 pm

rebar wrote:

I'm wondering how trailer makers will react to my request to widen the axle 9-10" so that they can fit offset truck rims.. They'll probably hang up on me. lol


It's not uncommon to have axles made to specific measurement. Axles can also be extended/shortened DIY.
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Re: Running the same wheels as on the truck? Offset

Postby KTM_Guy » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:58 pm

rebar wrote:Ive always thought it would be a advantage to have the trailer setup with the same exact wheels and tire size as on my truck so I would only need one spare. But the wheel offset of the truck is 4 3/4", while the trailer rim is centered at 0 offset.

For those of you who have done this.. Did it require a wider axle so the tire wouldn't rub on the inside?

Thanks!


I think you are confusing backspace with off set.

Yes trailer rims are a 0 offset off the center line. Offset is measured in negative mm's and positive mm"s, such as -12 which would move the hub 12 mm to the back of the rim which in turns moves the wheel out from the car/truck.

Backspace is measured in inch's from the back of the rim to where the hub out mounts. your 4.75" you list is backspace. Depending how wide your wheel is will tell if you have a + or - offset. On the inside of the rim it will say what the offset is.

You can measure from the side wall of the trailer to the hub face and get an idea if it will work. But the tire can be wider than the rim width so take that into account.

Like has been said the wheel bore and spindle diameter will be the biggest issue. If you have aftermarket wheels that may help because they may have bigger bores to fit more vehicles. Another issue being its a 3/4 ton is the bolt pattern most likely will be 8 lugs. Most trailers are 5 lugs. You would need to know your bolt pattern on your trailer and truck and see if you can get an adapter (NOT spacer) to fit.

I am going through this now on my build and the bottom line is it is spendy to put car/truck/jeep wheels and tires on a trailer.

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Re: Running the same wheels as on the truck? Offset

Postby rebar » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:25 am

KTM_Guy wrote:
rebar wrote:Ive always thought it would be a advantage to have the trailer setup with the same exact wheels and tire size as on my truck so I would only need one spare. But the wheel offset of the truck is 4 3/4", while the trailer rim is centered at 0 offset.

For those of you who have done this.. Did it require a wider axle so the tire wouldn't rub on the inside?

Thanks!


I think you are confusing backspace with off set.

I am going through this now on my build and the bottom line is it is spendy to put car/truck/jeep wheels and tires on a trailer.

Todd


Thanks and yes I needed a little education regarding offset and back space. I think what first threw me off was finding this.. http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/specs/wheel/specs.htm

1994-2002 dodge 2500 2WD/4WD Steel Wheels:

Lug Pattern - 8 on 6.5", 9/16" bolt
Rim Size - 16x6.5"
Offset - 4.75"
Max Tire Size - 245/75R16, 255/85R16

But your saying offset is measured in mm, so Im not convinced the above information is accurate.
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Re: Running the same wheels as on the truck? Offset

Postby KTM_Guy » Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:28 am

rebar wrote:
KTM_Guy wrote:
rebar wrote:Ive always thought it would be a advantage to have the trailer setup with the same exact wheels and tire size as on my truck so I would only need one spare. But the wheel offset of the truck is 4 3/4", while the trailer rim is centered at 0 offset.

For those of you who have done this.. Did it require a wider axle so the tire wouldn't rub on the inside?

Thanks!


I think you are confusing backspace with off set.

I am going through this now on my build and the bottom line is it is spendy to put car/truck/jeep wheels and tires on a trailer.

Todd


Thanks and yes I needed a little education regarding offset and back space. I think what first threw me off was finding this.. http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/specs/wheel/specs.htm

1994-2002 dodge 2500 2WD/4WD Steel Wheels:

Lug Pattern - 8 on 6.5", 9/16" bolt
Rim Size - 16x6.5"
Offset - 4.75"
Max Tire Size - 245/75R16, 255/85R16

But your saying offset is measured in mm, so Im not convinced the above information is accurate.


I think let just used Offset for Backspace, not a big deal.

If you can just put a trailer tire and truck tire and see what you have. Then go from there. The other thing is do you have room under your fender for a bigger tire?

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Re: Running the same wheels as on the truck? Offset

Postby rebar » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:36 am

rebar wrote:1994-2002 dodge 2500 2WD/4WD Steel Wheels:

Lug Pattern - 8 on 6.5", 9/16" bolt
Rim Size - 16x6.5"
Offset - 4.75"
Max Tire Size - 245/75R16, 255/85R16


Given the above information, if the rim is 6.5" and back space is 4 3/4" that would mean it has 1 3/4" or 44mm positive offset?

I have neither the elusive dodge 12 valve 4x4 5 speed, or the narrow track trailer Iv been searching for for quite some time. I started talking to MTI king trailers about a narrow track enclosed but never got into details if they would build it with truck rims and tires.. Now that I know a little more thanks to you guys, I will have to call them back and cross my fingers because if I found a used trailer, it would probably come with 5 lug axles anyway.

Does anyone know if one can replace 5 lug hubs on a 3500# axle with 8 lug hubs?
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Re: Running the same wheels as on the truck? Offset

Postby rebar » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:40 pm

rebar wrote:If the rim is 6.5" and back space is 4 3/4" that would mean it has 1 3/4" or 44mm positive offset.


That would mean a adapter from 5 lug to 8 lug 1 3/4" thick would put the truck rim at 0 offset. :worship:
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Re: Running the same wheels as on the truck? Offset

Postby Ottsville » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:48 pm

Check the axle manufacturer's website to see what bolt patterns they offer.
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Re: Running the same wheels as on the truck? Offset

Postby rebar » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:57 pm

Ottsville wrote:Check the axle manufacturer's website to see what bolt patterns they offer.


I guess my point is if I ordered a 7k# axle to get the 8 lugs, the truck rim would rub on the trailer without a spacer anyway. It just dawned on me that simply using the stock 3500# axle with 2" spacers will get a truck rim close to the 0 offset I need! Bingo super easy peezy
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