Glidden Gripper vs PPG gripper

Canvas covered foamies (Thrifty Alternatives...)

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Re: Glidden Gripper vs PPG gripper

Postby GPW » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:17 am

Fish … WOW !!! That's a LOT of information !!! We’ll have to read through that more than a few times to only partially comprehend . :o
But , There ya’ go !!! The real Truth of what’s happening !!! 8)

Big Thanks Fish !!! Guys , seems like the bottom line is , if you really like the Gripper original , better stock up … it's out there somewhere … for now …
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Re: Glidden Gripper vs PPG gripper

Postby John61CT » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:40 pm

If it turns out that the new version PPG Gripper is not as good as the original Glidden Gripper, this is my current top choice research candidate

_______
I'm looking at a moisture-cured polyurethane aluminum filled paint called Aluthane.

From a private-label coatings chemist, Paul Oman, MS, MBA -- NACE (National Assoc. of Corrosion Engineers), SSPC (Soc. of Protective Coatings) aka "Professor Epoxy"

real character but super customer-service oriented, 603-435-7199

his company called Epoxy Products.

A excellent primer, very adhesive to almost any surface, will completely encapsulate the foam + canvas like an epoxy primer

and can also be a very tough top-coat if you like the color, over a rough surface comes up shiny.

Used on industrial vehicles and restorers, water tanks, train cars, engines, bridges, boats etc. Specifically also wooden decks and floors, pilings & piers, underwater no problem.

https://www.epoxyproducts.com/dataaluthane.pdf

https://www.epoxyproducts.com/aluthane.html

I realize this is not a cheap product in the original spirit of Glidden's "hardware-store primer".
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Re: Glidden Gripper vs PPG gripper

Postby GPW » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:00 am

Wow!!! Serious stuff !!! :o :thumbsup: Thanks John !!! :thumbsup:
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Re: Glidden Gripper vs PPG gripper

Postby zzzizxz » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:44 pm

I'm interested in that aluminum paint, or other options. Definitely looking to hear what other people have found.

Personally, I wish I hadn't used PPG gripper. The areas I used it have not stuck as well as the spots I used Glidden. It just isn't as good, and I have had more issues with bubbling than I think I should.

Hindsight being so good and all, I don't think I would recommend the new version to anyone. Just my thoughts.
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Re: Glidden Gripper vs PPG gripper

Postby RJ Howell » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:00 pm

So where we going? What's the new recommendation?

I figure I'm a week away from canvassing my cap... Any updates??
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Re: Glidden Gripper vs PPG gripper

Postby RJ Howell » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:02 pm

zzzizxz wrote:I'm interested in that aluminum paint, or other options. Definitely looking to hear what other people have found.

Personally, I wish I hadn't used PPG gripper. The areas I used it have not stuck as well as the spots I used Glidden. It just isn't as good, and I have had more issues with bubbling than I think I should.

Hindsight being so good and all, I don't think I would recommend the new version to anyone. Just my thoughts.


Curious if you tried it straight? No mix.. Seems to me the bubbling is coming from mixing.. I'm so close to covering and searching for a good solution (pun intended).
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Re: Glidden Gripper vs PPG gripper

Postby John61CT » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:42 pm

Mixing with what?

Why would anyone do that?
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Re: Glidden Gripper vs PPG gripper

Postby zzzizxz » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:20 pm

RJ Howell wrote:
zzzizxz wrote:I'm interested in that aluminum paint, or other options. Definitely looking to hear what other people have found.

Personally, I wish I hadn't used PPG gripper. The areas I used it have not stuck as well as the spots I used Glidden. It just isn't as good, and I have had more issues with bubbling than I think I should.

Hindsight being so good and all, I don't think I would recommend the new version to anyone. Just my thoughts.


Curious if you tried it straight? No mix.. Seems to me the bubbling is coming from mixing.. I'm so close to covering and searching for a good solution (pun intended).


No, I didn't mix or dilute it, I used straight PPG gripper. I've been having more bubbles popping up as time goes on, and I wonder if I am having some off-gassing issues that is making the bubbles. I suppose that the one good thing is that the trailer is still waterproof!
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Re: Glidden Gripper vs PPG gripper

Postby GPW » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:41 am

Guys , we finally settled on one way of using the Gripper for adhering canvas to foam , and that was to apply the Gripper to BOTH mating surfaces , then pressing them together while the paint is still wet , going over that with a plastic Bondo spreader to better press the two surfaces together , working out the trapped air .. The “bubbles” that we had was caused by dimples in the foam where the canvas gets stretched over a void ( hole ) … When heated in the daily temperature rise , the trapped air expands with the heat and shows an obvious Bulge ... The reason we need to pay better attention to the foam surface underneath … :thumbsup:

Warning , OPINION : Although we hadn’t tried the PPG gripper , I must say we don’t much care for their paint … :R 20 years ago , I painted my house with Richard’s paint from Florida … It lasted 15 years before starting to “chalk” ( that’s a Lot for around here ), when I went back to my favorite paint store , they only had PPG , and after only four years it’s starting to dull … So much for PPG …. I won’t be buying that anymore … :thumbdown: JMHO
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Re: Glidden Gripper vs PPG gripper

Postby GPW » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:06 am

Note : and not to be too off topic … Tightbond 2 is still a viable glue for attaching canvas , it works very well , and is easily thinned for a “sizing” coat ( cheaper too ) … However as we learned the hard way , it must be protected from daily or continuous wetting as it is not water “proof” ( only “resistant” ) and will eventually break down with repeated soakings :o … That problem solved with drip edges, which not only diverted the deluges we've had lately but the ubiquitous Morning Dew we had every day , and it was the daily dew that did the damage …( not a problem with the Glidden Gripper .. ) I didn’t abandon the T2 , I just “protect it “ !!! :thumbsup:

On the other hand if enough people write to PPG and tell them they really don’t like their fake gripper primer and the sneaky bait and switch marketing they did , and that they would not buy their products anymore and will tell their friends on social media not to do so too … Then they “ Might “ make a better product , but you can bet it will be more expensive ... :frightened:

And JMHO , I’ve been using the Gripper as a base for some Acrylic paintings ( ART) and with great success. :thumbsup: It’s a great primer for that purpose and costs half the price of a gallon of Gesso … I’ll hate to run out of it now , knowing the PPG replacement has to be tested all over and is still reported to be not as good … grrrr !!! :NC
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Re: Glidden Gripper vs PPG gripper

Postby RJ Howell » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:21 am

zzzizxz wrote:

No, I didn't mix or dilute it, I used straight PPG gripper. I've been having more bubbles popping up as time goes on, and I wonder if I am having some off-gassing issues that is making the bubbles. I suppose that the one good thing is that the trailer is still waterproof![/quote]

Bubbles showing up later, like days later? I've had issues with bubbling with the TB2.
Yes, I'm using a scraper, my hand, stretching a little as I go and coating foam first. Practicing on the seams until I get comfortable with a system.
Just checked my last attempt.. The sample piece looks great. The window wraps have some minor bubbling (spots of tight multiple folds), but I have one flat that developed 3 large ones.. Figuring operator error on that one.
Currently trying Zineer 123 exterior primer.
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Re: Glidden Gripper vs PPG gripper

Postby ghcoe » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:59 am

I sand and wipe down the foam with alcohol before applying the canvas. Seems to work to keep the bubbling down to a minimum. I have had no issues with my first build except where I know I forgot to sand and wipe with alcohol. A bit annoying once you realize your mistake. Luckily it was on the inside bottom portion of the hatch so it is not noticeable. On my second build I have had some large delamination (bigger than a bubble). Not sure of the cause at this point. repairs have been quite easy though for all of this. With lots of bubbles it might take some time, but the good news is that it goes fast.

I got a small needle syringe like a diabetic syringe. Then dilute TBII 50/50 (you will have to otherwise it will not flow through the needle). Use the needle to poke a hole on one side of the bubble/delamination. Then poke a hole on the opposite side of the bubble/delamination. Start to fill the void till TBII starts to come out the hole you previously make. Have a damp cloth with you to soak/wipe away excess glue that will come out. I use a roller, but you can use your thumb to push the TBII in all directions to get the entire void filled with TBII. Most times it will hold down with just that, but if it still pops up just let the TBII dry a few minutes and try again, continue with this till it starts to stick. The TBII 50/50 mix seems to relax the canvas enough to allow it to flatten out again and the repairs in most cases are permanent. If you do it right you don't even have to touch up the paint since the holes are so small and are sealed up with the TBII.

Hope this helps, George.
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Re: Glidden Gripper vs PPG gripper

Postby GPW » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:51 am

You know, George is 100% right about wiping down the foam before gluing … Just the oil, in your hands will prevent glue /paint from sticking … When we used to paint Kustom Vans ( some time ago ) we’d wipe the whole vehicle down THOROUGHLY with a chemical to remove any grease , impurities ( prep-sol) Before we painted it … :thumbsup: Just handling the foam gets your greasy fingerprints all over it ... :o

Anybody ever think of a thin primer coat on the clean foam First … ??? Sorta like when we glue wood … :thinking: primer does stick really well to primer … More to test …. :NC
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Re: Glidden Gripper vs PPG gripper

Postby ghcoe » Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:32 am

On my builds I did primer the exterior before the canvas process.

I primed since I do a lot filling with spackle and once I get the surface smooth I prime the area before adding any more spackle. Keeps me from sanding too far into the surface. One I am done filling I prime the whole exterior. TBII seems to bond just fine to the primer.
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Working with flashing for foamie construction viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60303
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Re: Glidden Gripper vs PPG gripper

Postby RJ Howell » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:15 pm

ghcoe wrote:On my builds I did primer the exterior before the canvas process.

I primed since I do a lot filling with spackle and once I get the surface smooth I prime the area before adding any more spackle. Keeps me from sanding too far into the surface. One I am done filling I prime the whole exterior. TBII seems to bond just fine to the primer.


Like this! My mind was running the same direction, yet have no point of reference/experience working with foam like this. My plan was to prime everything before the canvasing of the exterior. Really like this confirmation!

I have not tried the PPG yet and should before I do the outside. My issue is I only have enough Glidden to do the roof for sure.. How much more, I don't know.

Here's were I'm at: My Zinseer 123 clings to the foam pretty well, not the bedsheet as well. The TB2 seems to me anyway, to be the opposite, cloth well and not the foam.. Again, I'm new to all this, but first thought is a test of priming the foam and TB2 to cloth over.

Anyone try this?

To that extent.. What have you folks found that clings the best on one or the other (not necessarily on both)? Of course then, the combination of?
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